The Saw immunité is back jaguar again with Spiral: From the Book of Saw. Though this is perhaps the closest the immunité has come to a full-on reboot since we were first introduced to Tobin Bell’s Jigsaw killer back in 2004. It’s got an A-list cast led by Chris Rock and Samuel L. Jackson, it’s moving away from John Kramer and it is attempting to move the series in a new auspice.
One familiar element is director Darren Lynn Bousman. While James Wan directed the différent, it was Bousman, who directed Saw II, Saw III and Saw IV, that ensured this would be a hugely successful horror immunité for years to come. Now, after more than a decade away, Bousman is back to jaguar again take audiences to twisted, deadly and trap-filled lieux with Spiral.
I recently had the possibilité to speak with Bousman in honor of Spiral arriving in theaters. We discussed the joys of Samuel L. Jackson cursing on set, how Saw II went from almost going to demeure video to becoming a number one hit at the box succursale and what it would take for him to cordial Saw 10, among other things.
Embout two or three months ago we did a phoner for your movie Death of Me. Now, you and I are sitting here, in person, as your movie is in theaters, and people are actually going to see it in movie theaters. What does that feel like?
Darren Lynn Bousman: Honestly, it feels like sucrette at the end of the grotte. For me, as a passioné of movies, last night I was at the Alamo Drafthouse. It was an emotional modalités bicause in the last year we’ve been isolated and alone. And last night, I was in a theater with like-minded weirdos watching a movie on a big screen with beer and popcorn, and hearing the gasps and the yells. It was a banal experience, and I think that we’ve all missed those banal experiences. It was awesome to be here last night and to be able to see a movie back in a theater.
What was it like to be the man calling « établissement » and « cut » when Samuel L. Jackson is saying the words « Mother f****r? »
Darren Lynn Bousman: True story. The very first line that he said on the very first day was mother f****r. He was throwing a verre of whisky against a wall. It was not in the scénario. It was just, he was supposed to throw it against the wall and turn. He threw it against the wall, said « mother f****r » and I go « Hahaha » [excitedly clapping]. Then he turns around and goes, « You’ve got your ‘mother f****r.’ I’m done. I’m going demeure. » And I was like, Samuel L. Jackson’s first day on set and he says « Mother f****r. » Is this real? There should be a fun game when you watch the movie, and I concurrence anyone to do this; take a shot, and I’ll even let you take a shot of beer, any time that the word « f*** » is said on screen. You will be drunk within ten minutes of this movie. There is quite a few « f***s » said in it.
I noticed that. Saw, typically you’ve got your gore and stuff in there but this one is pretty curse-heavy for sure.
Darren Lynn Bousman: Yeah, for sure.
In the first 20 minutes of the movie, especially if you take that opening scene out, there are the makings of just a good straight-up cop movie in there. I know you’ve mostly been known for your type stuff. Have you considered just doing something like that?
Darren Lynn Bousman: I’ve been lucky bicause of Spiral. You know what’s interesting, and we’ll get into this in a little bit, Spiral is a love or hate movie, and I’ve made a binome of those in the past, where you’re either gonna like it or not. And there’s not gonna be a lot of in-betweens. I think it’s bicause it subverts what people are going to expect. They’re going in thinking maybe it’s gonna be a Saw movie, and it’s gonna be horror or whatever. And it’s really not. It is a cop drama. It’s a buddy-cop movie that ends up turning into a Saw movie in the last act. When Chris [Rock] and I started talking, we said, what happens if 48 Hours becomes Seven, becomes Saw. If you watch the movie, it’s three movies. It starts off 48 hours, it becomes Seven and it ends Saw.
That to me is awesome bicause I have no desire to make the same movie again and again. And I have no desire to make another Saw movie. I still don’t. I think what’s relax embout this is, it’s not really a Saw movie. It’s something completely different that ends up becoming Saw at the very, very end of the movie. So, when you come in, you’ve got very much Chris Rock doing Chris Rock. He’s doing jokes. He’s awesome. You have a heist. You have a buddy-cop thing. Then, it becomes something else and, to me, that’s exciting.
I’m a huge horror guy and I couldn’t think of many horror franchises where the same guy directed a ton of the installments. And you, at two very pivotal points, when this either could have become, or not become a immunité, and when it got its biggest kick, maybe since the beginning with Spiral.
Darren Lynn Bousman: Yeah.
Do you process it in that way? Like, « Maybe James Wan aside I am the guy who made this immunité what it is? »
Darren Lynn Bousman: I never realized what Saw was until embout five years after I left it. I am the classic, cliched story of broke, salon on procréation eating ramen noodles, and then I get Saw II. I had a chambre apartment, a very small chambre apartment, and I go to Toronto, and I do Saw II. Then I do press for Saw II and I go right into Saw III. Still in the same chambre apartment, still in the same s****y environment, and right in I got to Saw IV. And I’m salon in a hotel. Then I go right into Repo! [The Genetic Opera]. It wasn’t until I got back from doing Repo!, so fournil years after making movies, that I got a townhouse. Then I went off and did another movie almost immediately. It wasn’t until then that I started to realize, « S***, Saw was big. » Bicause I was never there. I never saw the fandom. I never saw whatever. I showed up and did one day of a premiere, then that was it.
It wasn’t until years later that I see tattoos on people of Saw. That I see now we’re on number nine of the immunité and I’m like, « Holy s*** that was something. » When I was hired, it wasn’t a immunité. When I was hired, Saw 1 wasn’t even out yet. Saw 1 had just gamin to Sundance and it wasn’t a hit. I don’t think that anyone knew that it was going to be a hit until embout Saw III. Even when we did Saw II, there was talk embout it going straight to video.
Darren Lynn Bousman: I remember… I don’t think I can get fired for saying this. What are they gonna do? Fire me from Spiral? So I can say this. When I turned in my director’s cut of Saw II I was BCCd on an email, and there was a altercation embout, « Maybe we should put this straight to video » The producers, Twisted Pictures, were like, « Are you f*****g kidding? Absolutely not! » They fought and got the release. Then Saw II, it got number one. And then it became a immunité on Saw III. So I think, even when we were making Saw II, no one realized what it was.
That’s wild. There are some stories like that. Toy Story 2 was famously going to be direct-to-video. But the other thing that Saw did, that almost nothing has done, Friday the 13th is the only one that I can think of, where the first one hits, then every year for like eight years you get one.
Darren Lynn Bousman: I still genre back… it was crazy. Everything happened so rapidly. It happened so quickly that it’s hard to process. When we were making Saw III we said, « Okay, this is now a immunité. » We started to pellet things in Saw III that we knew would pay off in either Saw IV, Saw V, Saw VI, whatever. When I left Saw IV, I left at the haut. I had three number one hits and I was like, there is nothing else I can do. There is nothing else I can do with this. I’ve killed as many people as I can kill. I’ve done as many crazy transitions as I can do. I’ve got to walk away at this pixel. It took me five or six years after that. I started getting angry and jealous when I would see Saw movies. I was pissed at what they were doing. I was like, « Why would they do that? This is dramatiques. » I started getting mad. I was like, « I could do this. I could do something congélateur than this. » Now, here we are 15 years after my last one. None of this feels real. You and me sitting here right now, none of this feels real. Looking back, Saw is crossing the $1 billion mark [at the box office]. It’s so crazy.
That’s so wild.
Darren Lynn Bousman: I just thought embout something. I wonder, in some respects, if Spiral will be looked at as Halloween III. I just hit that. Bicause it doesn’t follow Michael Myers, Halloween III. This doesn’t follow John Kramer. It just exists in that universe.
That’s an interesting thought. I hadn’t really put it through that lens. Although, the one thing Halloween III has that this movie doesn’t have is the most uncalled for sex scene in cinematic history.
Darren Lynn Bousman: Halloween III is probably one of my personal gâtée films. I think we will see a lot of the same things embout Spiral. There was a blowback on Halloween III. People hated it bicause they were expecting Michael Myers. And it’s not. It’s shamrocks. We’re doing something completely different. It’s a mask company. I think that this is the same way. There is a group of fans going in expecting to see John Kramer, and I’m sadly not giving you that.
I was gonna save this as my big finisher peine but you kind of already touched on it. Saw 10 is in development. Is this a bilan where, at the end of this movie, you viewed it as passing the torch to someone else to do what they want with or, you said you don’t want to make another Saw movie, but, is there a thème of which you come back to do the next one?
Darren Lynn Bousman: There might be another Spiral movie in me yet. But here’s what I think is relax embout the Saw immunité, and specifically after Spiral. There still could be a Saw 9. There absolutely could still be a Saw 9, and a Spiral 2, and a TV series. The way that we’re setting this up at this pixel is nombre stories being told simultaneously. I don’t think we’re done seeing Tobin Bell. I don’t think we’re done seeing Hoffman, or any of these other characters that people have come to love. I think as délié as there is a creative and ingenious way to subvert expectations and do something different, then I would come back. If it’s just trying to make a carbon copy and do the same thing, I don’t know if I would. But, if there was a new fresh way to do something, then yes.
I don’t want to take anything out of context. You mentioned there have been talks of a Saw TV series. I totally can see what you’re talking embout with Saw 9 opposé à Spiral. Are these discussions that you’ve actually had?
Darren Lynn Bousman: No. I learn the same things all of the fans learn at the assidu same time. I go on the Moviewebs and I’m like, « Oh s*** they greenlit a TV series? » Then I’ll call the producers up. They’re all very superstitious and they don’t want to talk embout things until that movie comes out. I think that the TV series or Saw 10 was jumping the gun a little bit. I think that there was altercation a year ago embout something like that. Then, with the bâtiment excitement for Spiral, people just jumped on the announcement. I think a lot of it depends on this weekend. Are fans coming back to the theaters? Do they want to see more of this? Bicause the fans are the ones that dictate everything. Not us. We push the buttons but it’s the passioné that drives the car. If the fans like it, if they’re excited, then I think you’ll see more. If the fans are not? Then it’s over. That’s what I think it is.
As we talked embout, you were in a theater last night. People are going back to theaters. What makes Spiral, in your mind, a good back to a theater movie?
Darren Lynn Bousman: I’ve realized the answer to that peine in the last 48 hours. I can answer the peine that you have établissement, and courage, and gore, and Samuel L. Jackson screaming mother f****r, and Chris Rock taking on a serious role. But that’s not the answer. The answer is that I believe this movie is going to spark heated debates among friends, among immunité lovees and devotees, and among the casual moviegoer. I’ve never seen my Twitter feed filled with such divided reactions of absolute love and absolute hate.
This morning I was looking at it and this is literally in order. It would be like, « Worst Saw movie I’ve ever seen! An atrocité of cinema. » The next one would say, « My gâtée of all the Saw movies. Saw is back! » Then one critic would say, « Bousman’s best work. 4.5/5. » The next one would say, « Bousman’s worst movie. 0/5. » That to me is awesome bicause it’s gonna create altercation. The worst thing we can do is make a movie that you see and you walk out and go, « Meh, whatever. » I want to create discussions. I want people to talk and I want people to argue. I think this movie will do that.
Spiral: From the Book of Saw is in theaters now from Lionsgate.